Curse

agrios · Mar 30, 2012, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Hi, Id like know what do you think of this generic, PVE, dagger build to be used while grouping or h/h.

code: AXIyI3xkAEx3BT3zOYcGAArI

Optional:
-Can be PI or SY

Strenghts:
- Good e-management
- Virtual non-stop chain w/ 3 PBAoE attacks
- Quick Deep Wound helps spikes
- Good crit rate (nearly 60%)

Weaknesses:
-Melee hate
-IAS lower than Critical agility
-No blocking
-Strips

Usage:
- Keep GDA and WoA up all times
- Combo with 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 5 (w/the last 3 skills damaging all around you).

How could this build be improved?

Daris · Mar 30, 2012, 03:44 PM // 15:44

critical defense is always nice, easy to maintain

ultimak719 · Mar 30, 2012, 07:10 PM // 19:10

I would say you don't need both phoenix and whirlwind attack. Pick one or the other. This gives you room for another pve only skill like asuran scan. Also, great dwarf armor is typically outclassed by having a protection hero or a soul twisting rit. You might want to consider critical defenses for that extra slot.

Zealous daggers and WoTA are typically all you will need for energy management, so I would say use jagged strike instead of golden lotus, merely because it recharges faster.

I'm not sure about the numbers and I don't think you really want to scrap the idea entirely, but I believe Jagged < Fox fangs < death blossom spamming produces better aoe than your current setup. I would try it both ways and see which you liked better.

Gabs88 · Mar 30, 2012, 07:28 PM // 19:28

floodwig · Mar 30, 2012, 08:21 PM // 20:21

i like the combo of daggers and whirlwind attack, is it possible to get a double hit on one of these?

skills i would consider trying to work in, especially in optional slot...
critical agility, shroud of distress, critical eye(if having energy troubles)

Premium Unleaded · Mar 30, 2012, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Double strikes only trigger when autoattacking.

Rhershy8 · Mar 30, 2012, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Idk why people like Wota so much. Critical agility works fine in it's place, and its 33% IaS is too good to pass up. This frees up an elite slot for flashing blades. You can take on hard hitting melee with FB and not have to kite. My dagger spam build is (using zealous daggers of course):

jagged strike
fox fangs
death blossom
critical eye
critical agility
save yourselves!
death's charge/pve skill of your choice
flashing blades

attribute set-up:
12+1+2 dagger mastery
12+1 critical strikes
3 shadow arts

Cuilan · Mar 31, 2012, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Have you tried asking them? WoTA is less likely to be removed and doesn't have an activation time. It also helps with energy when under cons. Critical Agility is an enchantment that renews itself to the top of the enchantment stack.

Flashing Blades is terrible for the same reasons Nightstalker's Insignia are terrible.

afya · Mar 31, 2012, 07:31 PM // 19:31

flashing blade is ok, but wota helps energy and speed especially when facing heavy enchant removal.
also consider the current meta having so much defenses with emo or st or imbagon, that blocking isn't always needed.

agrios · Apr 02, 2012, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Have you tried asking them? WoTA is less likely to be removed and doesn't have an activation time.(..)

Thats the main reason I chose WotA. It somehow compresses one IAS skill + critical eye - doubling the crit bonus of it - in one slot. Being a stance, its removal is very uncommon. Flashing blades is good in mainly physical areas. I use FB on a farm build, but I think WotA is better at keeping the gameflow.

I'm considering using shroud of distress as slot #8.

As for the e-management using zealous daggs. Well, with this new HM, i tend to switch to elelmental damage when facing warrior type monsters. Or monster with weakness to some element...so..I'm not using zealous all the time..

As for jagged, it's got a quick recharge sure, but not all monsters bleed..so, I dont think it's a must on all areas..but I will give a try on it..

Lets keep this going..

DRGN · Apr 02, 2012, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by agrios

Thats the main reason I chose WotA. It somehow compresses one IAS skill + critical eye - doubling the crit bonus of it - in one slot. Being a stance, its removal is very uncommon. Flashing blades is good in mainly physical areas. I use FB on a farm build, but I think WotA is better at keeping the gameflow.

I'm considering using shroud of distress as slot #8.

As for the e-management using zealous daggs. Well, with this new HM, i tend to switch to elelmental damage when facing warrior type monsters. Or monster with weakness to some element...so..I'm not using zealous all the time..

As for jagged, it's got a quick recharge sure, but not all monsters bleed..so, I dont think it's a must on all areas..but I will give a try on it..

Lets keep this going..

You don't use Jagged for the bleeding, you use it for the .5 second activation time and the 1 second recharge. The downside to the bleeding immunity isn't the loss of almost inconsequential damage, it's the annoying message about it.

agrios · Apr 02, 2012, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRGN

You don't use Jagged for the bleeding, you use it for the .5 second activation time and the 1 second recharge. The downside to the bleeding immunity isn't the loss of almost inconsequential damage, it's the annoying message about it.

You got a

point here. The overall DPS may compensate, even in the areas of non-bleeders.. and yes..the message is annoying

Guess what is left for me is to test it..

(..)

From my tests with a PVP char @master of damage, the dagger spam has a lil more DPS than my build. But, in mine death occurred 1 second earlier due to deep wound. I never ran outta energy with my build, but did with dagger spam. Even adding Malicious Strike to the end of chain didnt seem to solve the issue.

I tested a variant A/E (conjure) with the dagger spam build and didnt notice significant increase on the DPS or time of death. What is somehow strange..

Can anyone else test it?

fireflyry · Apr 03, 2012, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Personally I don't see the need or desire for any deep wound on a PvE Sin build.As the game stands it's usually detrimental to your overall DPS.If your going to roll a spike build go pure spike.If your rolling DB you want as many rotations of your chain as possible before your target drops hence deep wound is counter-productive.

Outside that... there's no logical reason to not take CA.Non-elite IAS and armor that spanks WotA.

Each to their own.

DRGN · Apr 03, 2012, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I've used Finish Him on my Sin for a while now and I've found it to be really useful, even without AP. The extra damage + DW that you can apply without messing up your DPS at makes it really useful for taking down things that really need to die(like a monk in HM Slaver's). I also run WotA with Critical Agility because, as people have said, the extra crits are nice, CA is very vulnerable to enchant stripping because of the way it reapplies itself, and there's not really a whole lot to go in that slot anyway(I currently run Jagged/FF/DB/Finish Him/SY/CA/Critical Eye/WotA when I do play my sin).